Choosing Musicality, with Mark Hanna (Meet The Team)

Christopher: Today we have another episode of Meet The Team, and I’m super excited to introduce a team member from our Admissions Team here at Musical U, Mark Hanna.

We’re going to be diving into a bit about his musical backstory, his role on the team, and his tips on improving your own musicality. Here we go!

So, Mark, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Say a quick hello to our audience.

Mark: Hi, guys!

Christopher: I have been looking forward to this one because not only are you one of my favourites, and it’s always great chatting with you, I think the Admissions Team is a relatively new part of our team here at Musical U and a lot of people don’t really know what that means and what you guys might do. At the same time, we have lots of people who’ve spent extensive time on the phone with you but might never have put a face to the name!

So I’m excited to have this chance to introduce you.

And as you know, we love to kick off with the big intimidating question of “what does musicality mean to you?”

Mark: Thanks, Christopher. This is always a head-scratcher for me, because I find that when I try to articulate what I feel about musicality, or the word musicality, I overthink it, and it kind of becomes something too convoluted, and maybe I even lose the original meaning of the word.

So when I try to detach myself from what it actually means, I always circle back to something that stems from within, something that comes from inside and is governed or at least accompanied by some kind of emotion.

It can be happiness or joy. It could be pain. It could be love or even anger.

And musicality also, sometimes it’s easier to think of something it’s not. Like it’s not mechanical or robotic. It flows. It’s natural.

Those are some of the associations I get from musicality.

And because it’s something that stems from the inside, I also associate it with something that needs to be uncovered rather than something that’s been gifted to certain individuals. Because it comes from the inside.

It’s innate.

Christopher: Awesome. I love that.

And has that always been your perspective? Or tell us a little bit about how you’ve related to that word over the years, where you’ve come from as a musician.

Mark: Yeah, it ties a little bit into how I got started with music. I just remember growing up, I didn’t grow up in a musical family, so to speak.

Nobody played music or even did a lot of singing. So I always just assumed that people who played instruments, I remember seeing them in school when I was maybe eight to ten years old, and I would just assume certain people were meant to play those things. The guitarists, the bassists. And the recorder that we all play was just to keep us engaged and maybe annoy some people, especially the adults that were in charge of the class. So yeah.

Christopher: I’m sure I don’t know what you mean, Mark! Recorder is an annoying instrument?! You just offended a whole lot of professional recorder players in our audience.

Mark: Yeah, unfortunately, we didn’t use them that well and we weren’t really instructed. Anyways, that soprano recorder, that if you play it well, it sounds beautiful, but when you’re just handing it out to a bunch of kids and let them free roam, the results are thereafter.

Christopher: That’s fair. That’s definitely fair! I think I’ve done an episode or two in the past about why piano and guitar are not good starter instruments for kids.

And you know, you’re right. Like giving a kid a recorder, it’s so hard just to make one note sound good. And I got my, one of my kids a tin whistle and found the same thing too. I thought it would be nice and easy for her, but even just like covering up the holes properly with your finger.

Anyway, that’s a conversation for another day! But fair enough, fair enough. You have clarified, we have unoffended the recorder crowd! Continue!

Mark: Yeah. In fact, later in life, I got a recorder again and was able to produce very beautiful sounds.

So it’s definitely not the instrument, it was definitely on us, and maybe how it was approached at that time.

So, yeah, certainly my approach to the word musicality has changed during the years because I just assumed there was really reserved for certain individuals in the past.

Christopher: But at the same time, you persisted with music and you went on to play mostly guitar, am I right?

Mark: Yeah. So here’s where it gets really interesting: I had no idea that I would ever pick up an instrument.

I think I was 17, and just by pure chance, a friend of the family asked me if I had ever considered playing guitar because he was thinking about picking it up along with his daughter, a classmate of mine. So I said, why not?

And I remembered I had this beaten up electric guitar that my brother had given me and it was missing one string. And I went to replace that one string – instead of replacing all the strings like I should have!

And I took that beat-up electric guitar with me and we started playing, you know, the most simple chords and small riffs. And I had friends that could show me a riff or a song here and there.

But yeah, that was the beginning, and, that really captured me and made me really focus on this new world of guitar.

I even convinced my dad to get me an acoustic guitar that could stay in tune and I could start really working on.

And from there, I was just smitten with the idea of especially guitar, and that became a gateway into musicality, so kind of a pure chance for me.

Christopher: That’s awesome. And tell us how your music interests have developed over the years or what you’re up to these days.

Mark: Yeah. So I must admit, I kind of went overboard with the guitar once I just found it, it was like a new love.

I really connected with that Prince song “Guitar” when he says “I love you, babe, but just not like I love my guitar”! And I probably ruined a couple of relationships by just not being present and just dedicating too much of my attention to guitar.

And I remember having to choose between doing my homework or actually playing guitar, and the guitar would win nine out of ten times. So throughout the, especially the high school, college years, I would gig a lot.

I found a couple of bands to play with, one of them being a trio, where we would go out and play gigs almost every week, sometimes every second week, local clubs and bars.

And that’s where I really got thrown into the mix of playing live music and found a great pleasure and great sense of joy of especially playing improvised lines, improvised guitar, and also trying to take care of all the harmonic filler along with one other bass player.

That was one of the great challenges of playing just three people. You have to kind of stretch. And I was suffering a lot rhythmically, which was one of my big weaknesses at the time, along with an untrained ear or uncoordinated ear. So there were a lot of things to do there.

And I think that’s when Musical U, a lot of years after, came into the picture to kind of fill that void.

But my guitar playing went through phases, so I would always play at home, no matter what. It was my therapy. If I had a stressful day at work or doing something else, I would always come back to the electric guitar or the acoustic guitar, sometimes improvise something or come up with song ideas.

I would write songs, write lyrics, but I would never sing them because I shied away from singing, had too many negative experiences with singing growing up, and I thought that, again, I was kind of limited in my beliefs about learning to sing, so I kind of shied away from that.

But I would just love writing music and playing guitar and actually wanted to sing it, but I often had other people sing the songs I wrote.

Christopher: Awesome, yeah.

And I had the pleasure of watching a video of you performing one of your songs recently, a very inspiring track about a seagull! So I have enjoyed the fruits of that labour.

And you mentioned there discovering Musical U. I’m trying to remember, because, as you know, we kind of have two strands to what we do, the musicality side and the superlearning side, and we do weave them together very much. But typically someone comes to us for one or for the other.

I was trying to remember which of them you came to us for originally, because you dived into both. But can you remember?

Mark: Yeah, it’s actually interesting. I first caught wind of Musical U because there was something talking a little bit about the active listening part, which was kind of my gateway, along with the Foundations, which turned out to be Living Music because I went for the whole package. And that’s the real first experience.

It was actually, instead of doing the sensible thing and going to the Spring season, I ended up going to Winter season because it was about to start a live one. And that’s where I got my feet wet.

And I was amazed because I knew a lot of the so-called theory behind it. But the way we do things in Winter and the way it was presented meant that I was connecting my ears to things. I was experiencing the sounds. I wasn’t just reading about them or understanding them intellectually, I was actually experiencing.

So I had my first “aha” moment where I could tell just by the sheer mood if we were going left or right in the circle of fifths. And that was an “aha” moment. It was like, okay, so I’m not tone deaf, I can actually hear these things.

Christopher: That’s awesome. And just for a bit of context, for anyone who doesn’t know, the Winter season of Living Music is focused on the circle of fifths, but as a gateway to really all of theory relating to pitch. So keys and scales and chords as well.

And it’s funny that you dived in there. It’s not typically people’s first choice, because it can seem a bit intimidating, but I’m glad you had that experience because that was our exact goal, is to actually make it really playful and exploratory and fun. And I’m relieved because some people might have turned the other way. Awesome. Cool.

And I mentioned at the beginning, the Admissions Team is probably a little bit mysterious to a lot of people because obviously our main membership, you can just come and sign up and become a member. Talk a little bit, if you would, about your role on the team, what you do in the Admissions Team.

Mark: Yeah, it’s a really interesting and exciting role I’ve gotten here at Musical U with the Admissions Team because we have this wonderful coaching program, which, to be fair, isn’t all that old, I think it’s a couple of years in. And it’s amazing. It’s just an amazing opportunity to work very closely with a musical expert at Musical U, so one of our fantastic coaches.

I’ve learned so much from them personally, and here our applicants and the future members of Next Level have the opportunity to work very closely with one of them, to work on something specific that they want to achieve. And that’s what I love about Next Level. It’s such a personal program that is tailored to what you want to achieve in music and things you might have already decided is impossible, outside your reach, and then that becomes the possible.

And that is one of the most amazing thing about the Next Level.

So my role is trying to find the best match. That’s it.

That’s the most precise way I would describe it. Find people that were a good fit for the program and where I can see that the program is totally aligned with their goals.

So I have these quite long interviews, it can easily be 90 minutes or sometimes even a couple of hours of conversation just to make sure that there’s a good fit and that I understand what this person, this musician is trying to accomplish.

Christopher: Awesome. Yeah, well put. And I think, you know, it’s probably clear from Mark’s manner, but when he says it might be a two hour conversation, this is not a grueling two hours, where we’re drilling you with a light shining in your face! You know, it can run that long just because there is so much to talk about.

And in those conversations, and I’ve done some of them myself as part of that Admissions process, it’s really just such a fun opportunity to go deep with someone on their musical background and what they’re up to and, like, their deepest dreams in music and then talk a little bit about the program and whether it would be a fit and figure out together, is this the right opportunity?

And you and Nic together do such a great job of that. I think our coaches are regularly praising you both for just finding these incredible people and really making sure that the people coming into Next Level are set up for total success in the program.

And you also have the opportunity sometimes to talk to new members coming in, right?

Christopher: Yeah. So, a while ago, I think you really saw the need for new members to kind of hit the ground running when they got into our regular memberships and just to try to help them focus on what will give them the best bang for their buck.

Like, how will they progress as quickly as possible without feeling overwhelmed by the riches that they’re embarking in? There are so many options, and we don’t want people to get lost in “that program, or should I do this?” And then they hop from one thing to the other, and they don’t really get the full benefit of either.

So having this conversation with new members on what to focus on, but also to identify if there is something else we could offer them. Sometimes just pointing them to a specific masterclass in our masterclass section is just what they need to overcome something very specific. And some have even considered doing something else, like taking a program where they can get a little more support. But the main focus is just having that personal, welcoming touch and help them get the most out of the program.

And those conversations are equally fascinating, even if they’re on the shorter side.

Christopher: Absolutely, yeah.

And it’s not something we can do for every new incoming member! But I think typically at the moment when people sign up for an annual plan, we include it as a special welcome. And I think it just, as you say, we always try and make the site as easy to use and DIY as possible.

But to get to talk to a human being for 20 or 30 minutes and really get that personalised guidance – clearly, with the raving feedback we get about those calls, shows how much of an impact it has for people. And, yeah, for my part, I just, you know, you said I had the idea. I think it was just that I saw how good you and Nic were at connecting with people and guiding them. And I was like “I kind of want to give this to everyone!” And we can’t quite do that, but I’m really pleased we found a way to slot that in and get more people that kind of assistance.

So what would be your favourite thing to do in your role at Musical U?

Mark: It’s such a hard question to answer because I think it’s the interaction with our clients, especially people that apply for Next Level, where I have really a better chance to get to know them. I think one of my favourite moments is when they realise that you don’t need permission to become a musician or somebody who has musicality. It’s a choice that you make.

It’s not something that is governed or controlled by any external source or power, you can choose to become a musical person or uncover that innate ability. And when that dawns on people, the amount of joy, the amount of confidence that they exhibit after making that realization, it just makes my role that more enjoyable, because I can see that these limiting beliefs that I’ve held myself about myself and about others are starting to dissipate, and they just allow themselves to feel that joy that comes from and that freedom that comes with becoming more musical.

So that would be one big thing.

Christopher: Awesome, yeah.

It’s funny how quickly things get deep for some people at Musical U! And particularly in the context of the Next Level. But, you know, we all care about music so much, and our dreams matter so much to us, even if we’re not ready to acknowledge that yet, that, as you say, when people have that shift to starting to really allow themselves to believe and allow themselves to step into that greater opportunity, it’s incredible to see it. Like it’s genuinely life-changing for them.

And you are someone who’s had the chance – I should have found the number beforehand, but – you’ve probably spoken to 100? 200? Probably 200-plus people at this point in your role in the Admissions Team and those welcome calls, as well as having been a member of Musical U yourself.

And so I’m curious to know what would be something strange or unusual or a little bit left-field that you found is really impactful for people in developing their musicality and helping them along that musical journey. If you could offer one tip or technique or some suggestion.

Mark: This is probably one of the hardest questions to answer, because obviously everything inside Musical U is like, we have a bounty of tips that will help, including the superlearning techniques. And every time we have a masterclass that shows a little bit, little tip that we can provide, like taking short breaks when you’re practicing.

But I think it has to be, for me, still really making use of audiation. Making use of something that you don’t necessarily think will work, like kind of visualising yourself playing.

And I know it because when people try it, our members try it, or when I do it, it just makes everything more accessible. And also, I find that one of the main issues that a lot of music learners mentioned to me on these calls is I try to learn these things, and before I learn them and try to learn something else, I forget this first one, or I can’t seem to memorise.

I have a bad memory. I’m probably getting too old for this. And it’s often just the way they learn things.

Oftentimes we’re caught in this mass repetition cycles. We’re just practicing things over and over again. It’s not really conducive to memorising things. That’s not how the brain works.

So I can just mention, just as an example, I had to learn ten songs in the autumn over a span of two weeks, joining a new band, and to not play the riff A and song B, but kind of keep things separated in my mind. Visualising myself playing this in my head over and over again, along with actually doing the practical application of our superlearning techniques that we find on the page, allowed me to learn these and never have to bring any sheet music, any chord diagrams, just bring my guitar, show up and know the songs like they were my own.

That’s where we want to get to. And then you can also start experimenting and changing things up.

Christopher: Fantastic. Really great tips there. And I love that you connected audiation with both the memorising and the singing.

You know, when we were writing the audiation chapter for the musicality book, I was really keen to spell out those two things in particular because, you know, one of those really common breakthroughs for people in the membership is when they’re working on learning to sing. Just the simple idea of, you know, you play a note, you’re going to try and replicate, and then before you go to sing it, just take a second, hear it in your head, imagine yourself singing it, and now sing it. And it’s just like almost immediate effect every time, fixing the intonation.

And as you say, memorisation, that mental play and that mental practice is just phenomenal. So thank you. Really awesome tips people can take away and try in their own music making.

Mark, thank you so much for joining us on the show today! I know it’s just a quick mini-interview, but it gives people a glimpse. And as I said, especially for those who’ve talked to you at length, I’m sure they’re excited to hear more about your own musical background and story and for anyone in our wider audience to get that sense of what the Admissions Team are up to and what they’re doing and what it might mean to book a call with Mark or with Nic.

So thank you so much. Any parting words of wisdom for our audience today?

Mark: No, just that if you’re considering applying for Next Level and you were, that we expect something from you, I’ll just say that I can’t count the number of emails I’ve had from persons that looked into it, and it didn’t turn out to be a fit, but they just wanted to send me a message saying that they really got a lot of out of that interview, the clarity that they got.

So it’s never a waste of time. We always make sure that you get something from it, and in a way, it inspires you to keep on going, and it will help your motivation. But it also, it’s always just a pleasure for me, the highlight of my day is connecting with people all over the world who have this common interest.

Christopher: 100%, yeah.

And we get a lot of those comments about both you and Nic on the Admissions Team. I don’t think people would realise that even though it is a next level Admissions call and it’s part of the application process, whether they go for it or not, whether it turns out to be a fit or not, the chance to speak to an expert like yourself, who’s talked to so many people and really unpack your musical life and your journey and where you’re trying to get to it is invaluable, I think.

And that’s part of why I wanted to take a little bit of it and put it in that welcome call for new incoming members.

Thank you so much, Mark!

I’m going to be back tomorrow with our next episode. We have a fantastic Coaches Corner episode to wrap up the week.

That’s it for this one. Cheers! And go make some music!

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